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Talk:Manchukuo
Why is Puyi the "so-called 'last Emperor' of China"? He was the last Emperor of China--though granted, in terms of power he was much more of an Elizabeth II than an Elizabeth I. No one listened to him, and he never governed nor ruled beyond the Forbidden City (not counting Manchukuo, of course, which wasn't really China, not too much). But he held the title. Sun Yatsen acknowledged as much in the treaty he signed with the Qing. Turtle Fan 03:12, 26 August 2009 (UTC) :There was a general who proclaimed himself emperor and maintained the job for a cup of coffee. TR 03:27, 26 August 2009 (UTC) ::Oh, that was the Warlords period, when Sun's Republic fell apart temporarily. Everyone who could afford a mercenary army fancied himself President or Emperor or whatever his personal preference was. ::Off topic slightly but the textbook for my Chinese history class described Sun Yatsen as the one figure in modern Chinese history on whom there's nearly unanimous agreement: He sucked. I never figured out why. In my studied opinion, he was the only modern head of state or government--Qing, Republican, warlord, Japanese, Communist--who really meant well. Although I do have a mostly favorable view of Hu Jintao. And when I say he "meant well," I don't mean he did his best but couldn't get it done. He was pretty effective at first before finally getting overwhelmed by the chaos of China at the time. Would have happened to just about anyone. Turtle Fan 03:41, 26 August 2009 (UTC) :::I remember reading a couple of tidbits about Sun that left me feeling as if the man was not the most competent person, well intended or not. One attempt to start the revolution failed because his men missed the boat, literally. Another failed because they storm a police station, and the police were supposed to side with them, but no one told the police they were coming. So they were all slaughtered. :::Let's also not forget that Sun was in Denver when the revolution finally came. TR 03:54, 26 August 2009 (UTC) ::::That sort of thing's surprisingly common in Chinese history. Look at the end of the Taiping Rebellion. ::::It seems to me the boat would have waited, by the way. I mean, it's only there to ferry his men, right? Or were they renting out some extra room on a barge getting livestock to market or something? Turtle Fan 04:01, 26 August 2009 (UTC) :::::Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if they hadn't made any arrangements with the boat at all, and just hoped they'd get where they needed to go. TR 04:04, 26 August 2009 (UTC) ::::::And to think, with all that strategic planning they still lost the Opium Wars! ::::::Actually the Opium Wars were really more or less responsible for the endemic disorganization in Chinese military culture which continued to be felt in the early 20th century. Turtle Fan 04:09, 26 August 2009 (UTC) So doing nothing makes Manchukuo worthy of an ItPoME secton? Well, I suppose it adds a certain flavor. :Insofar as it's still standing and showed diplomatic inclinations early in the book, yes. TR 03:51, October 15, 2010 (UTC) By the way, I'm now wondering how long the Qing would have been tolerated if Japan had eliminated serious resistance in China. Even with the war on, Puyi barely held the throne due to an unwillingness to be quite as malleable a quisling as the Japs wanted. (My read on him, and it's a fairly generous one I suppose, is that he saw the RoC and PRC as enemies of the Manchu people--not unreasonable given the flat-out racism of the KMT's first constitution--and was willing to go along with the Japanese in an honest-to-God alliance, but really never expected the puppet status that was all he could get and kept kicking up his heels.) Maybe they replaced him with a cadet Qing, as they wound up doing with the Laanui line in DoI when the old lady shot them down. I think it's more likely that no more than a few years into the peace they would have done away with the Qing altogether, as they'd done away with the Goryeo in Korea in 1910. You've always got to have at least a few quislings in positions of prestige and what passes for influence in an occupied country, but, if the situation was stable enough to allow it, a Japanese governor-general being at the top of the heap would remind the Manchus who's boss, and that reads much truer to the nasty Japanese imperial policies of the early twentieth century, which I gather continued unabated in the absence of an educational mushroom cloud. Turtle Fan 02:07, October 15, 2010 (UTC) Manchukuo in Southern Victory Japan has control over this territory in the Southern Victory Serieis just like it does in OTL. However, I don't think it's was mentioned in any of the Settling Accounts books. China remained neutral in the Second Great War and was only at war with Japan, which was able to take over sizable portions of the country, including the northeastern part where Manchukuo is located. Is Manchukuo or whatever it is called just a Japanese territory or something else in the Southern Victory Series? -- 21:12, March 24, 2015 (UTC)Jacob Chesley the Alternate Historian :It's never addressed one way or the other. TR (talk) 21:26, March 24, 2015 (UTC)